Hornady researched and implemented a new, thermally resistant "Heat Shield" tip on the ELD-X and generated superbly accurate BCs via Doppler radar. A high-BC bullet maintains its speed much longer, resulting in less downrange drop, more downrange energy and less downrange wind drift — all critical to long-range hunting performance. Re: 7mm-08 vs .308 Help If your 7-08 happens to like the 162 Amax, you get the combination of higher MV (than 175gr) and good BC that really pays off down range in the wind. In fact, according to Lead Ballistician Thad Stevens, Barnes is intentionally engineering more and more of its hunting bullets to lose petals during penetration. Starting in 2017, shooters were... Keith Feeley of Tactical Solutions sat down with Michael Bane at SHOT Show 2018 to talk about the new X-Ring Takedown SBR .22LR rifle. Yes, I would also consider 7mm-08..243 is plentiful, but prone to rapid barrel wear and from what I read tends to be more finicky in matching load to barrel. Broadening the velocity window within which a bullet will expand yet hold together is every hunting-bullet company's holy grail. I've had Weatherby and multiple custom rifle makers tell me that the Barnes bullet is their go-to when qualifying rifles for an accuracy guarantee. Finally, the difficulty in manufacturing thick jackets with perfect consistency also challenges accuracy. isn't the best long range sniping round, either. While the .30-06 was meant for rifles with a long action, the .308 was meant for short action rifles. The .308 comes closer to 7mm-08 trajectories with heavier bullets, but at the cost of increased recoil over the 7mm cartridge. It has only one weakness: Since copper has less mass than lead, LRX bullets are inherently lighter than a lead-cored bullet of the same size, resulting in somewhat lower BCs. OSG's Lynn Burkhead and Ruger's Matt WIlson kick off SHOT Show 2018 by taking a look at the Ruger Predator. Aerodynamics suffer. The 7mm-08 Remington cartridge was introduced in the 1980s. However, I've personally struggled to achieve that level of accuracy in the handloading I've done, and I've tried a lot. Aerodynamics is another. 300 Win Mag vs 338 Lapua vs 338 Win Mag: Picking The Right Heavy Hitter In short, like the 7mm Rem Mag, the .300 Win Mag is an excellent cartridge that packs more performance than the .30-06 … 7mm-08 Remington Back in 1958, a certain 7mm/308 Winchester wildcat round was brought into development as its name hints, people developed this round by just necking down a standard .308 Winchester to have .284 bullets (7mm). The ABLR also features a thick jacket base. The main difference between 6.5 and 7mm-08 ammunition revolves around velocity, penetration power, and target type. Surely, there will be those that disagree with me and who can provide anecdotal tales to support their opinions on long-range hunting. Here is a bit of historical information that you should remember about 7mm-08 Remington as well as Creedmoor 6.5. If moose is on the menu, without question the Barnes LRX. Buy Reviews On A 7mm Vs A 308 Rifle And Ruger 308 Precision Rifle Long Range Scope Reviews On A 7mm Vs A 308 Rifle And Ruger 308 Precision Rifle Long Range Scop It's also the only one that wasn't originally engineered for long-range hunting. (See http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f26/7mm08-v... on this. What about impact performance? The 7mm-08 case is just slightly longer than the parent .308—2.035 inches vs. 2.015 inches—but maintains the same 20-degree shoulder of the .308 Winchester. Subscriber Services. What you give up by going with the 7-08 is a greater variety of factory loads in .308, the superior sectional density (hunting, not long range shooting advantage) of it, the much greater variety of actual bullets (if you reload), and the much cheaper cost of bargain and military surplus plinking ammo. Basically, Remington intended the caliber to be able to provide lesser recoil than a .308 while still being large and powerful enough to kill wild North American game effectively at long distances. My 7mm Rem Mag has less recoil than my 30-06, but it has a bull barrel so it is also heavier. It's worth noting that the thicker a bullets jacket is, the more difficult it is to produce consistently. We're talking the kind of precision that helps competitive shooters win championships at Camp Perry. The VLD became a long-range hunting bullet when some erudite soul discovered that it absolutely pounds thin-skinned, deer-size game. One weakness plagues the VLD in long-range hunting, and that's the lack of penetration when penetration is really needed. Advantage of the .308, it' s a short action cartridge suitable for most big game in North American, ammunition is usually less expensive and readily available even in most small gun shops. Hornady holds ELD-X accuracy standards to the same high level as its superbly accurate A-Max match bullet. See also http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html#7mm08; article 1/3 of the way down on 7mm-08.) Whether that guarantee is one MOA or a half-MOA (which I've personally seen many LRX loads achieve) that is a resounding accolade to Barnes bullets. If you seeking special discount you may need to searching when special time come or holidays. Here is a link to some information on it. Thus, it feeds better in semi-auto rifles and machine guns. 1. Whether you agree with the ethics of long-range hunting or not, it is a massive trend, and bullet manufacturers are engineering purpose-designed hunting projectiles to meet the exacting demands of hunters who want to shoot distances that would flabbergast their great-grandpappys. But except for the last, the rest are really all-around and hunting advantages. At those speeds, I know that any one of the bullets featured here will expand dramatically and cause massive internal hemorrhaging, yet will maintain enough weight to penetrate at least through a broadside elk. Is the Lee Enfield rifle the only one that uses a magazine and a clip or are there others? If I'm using a cartridge that is of marginal size/energy for the game at hand (for instance big bull elk with a 6.5 Creedmoor), the Barnes is also the way to go. Please share your experiences and knowledge! I have three friends, experienced handloaders and hunters, who have gotten into nightmare skirmishes with well-shot animals when their Berger bullet failed to penetrate through a shoulder and into vitals. It's a quick-and-dirty look at four different bullets specifically pegged for long-distant work. They both achieve half-MOA accuracy. Match bullet. What sniper wants 4 more inches of drop and drift at 600 yards? |   Where the LRX really shines is bullet integrity. While assessing different cartridges, you could have a general idea about their characteristics if you carefully research their development history. The Barnes LRX is a homogeneous bullet, meaning it's made out of one solid material, which happens to be copper. Yes, the 7mm-08 defeats 308. is it’s slightly reduced recoil. Not to quible about the accuracy potential of the 308 but the Sinclair Fullbore National is a mixed mid range, palma and long range aggregate. Ideally, a bullet will expand fully and penetrate deeply at very low velocities, making it capable of killing cleanly when long-range hunting, yet won't fragment into nothing and fail to penetrate at very close-range, high-velocity impacts. Very high. The 7mm Rem mag cartridge like the 308 and 30-06is widely available. As you'll see, each of them posses the three vital characteristics in varying degrees. Personally, this is the only purpose-built long-range hunting bullet I'd trust if I had to shoot a big moose quartering to me at very close range, and count on it to drive through that massive shoulder and go killing-deep into the vitals. It has only one weakness: Since copper has less mass than lead, LRX bullets are inherently lighter than a lead-cored bullet of the same size, resulting in somewhat … The ELD-X's core is not bonded to the jacket, because engineers couldn't achieve satisfactory levels of accuracy when they began bonding prototypes. Hello, I am getting into long range target shooting and rarely deer hunting. Here are a couple of details that you should remember about 7mm-08 Remington and 6.5 Creedmoor. The difference I see with the .308 vs 7mm-08 vs .243 is this; The .308 with light grain bullets will be similar to the others regarding recoil, but I feel the 7mm-08 when loaded to its max potential is a better cartridge. Recoil is a bitch and you'll need a brake which will make an already loud round much louder. While the round was introduced to the hunting world in 1952, it was adopted by NATO two years later as the 7.62x51mm round. If you are a reloader it can easily outshoot the .308 because of the bullet availability. Long range shooters prefer the 7mm-08 for the reasons in my first sentence. Like the .308 round, this bullet stays supersonic out to and past 500 yards. My twin brother's custom .300 Winchester Magnum and a good buddy's Desert Tech .260 Remington love the bullet. However, it still penetrates adequately, and it always kills quickly. What was the main appeal of the 7mm at the time? Nothing personal against the 308 Winchester. Why wont the cylinder on my revolver open now? ? Advertised BC numbers for the ABLR are high. Still have questions? (Standard-BC bullets don't experience the phenomenon because they don't maintain super speeds long enough.) In exchange for what advantage, 84 foot-pounds less punch? The 7mm Rem Magis a better caliber that offers a lot of bullet weights and types. Gunsite's Ed Head reviews the Ruger American/Robar Scout Rifle. Even if the four copper "petals" that expand outward and roll back into the classic mushroom shape on impact shear off of the main shank, it's impossible to batter that shank too small to penetrate. As for accuracy, while it's frankly not a match-grade projectile, the LRX tends to be very forgiving through a broad selection of rifles. i would say the 308. much more of it avaliable.. and the military wouldnt use it for their snipers if it wasnt the best in its class. ©2020 Outdoor Sportsman Group. It was originally a match bullet and a very good one. Practical rifle marksmanship depends on following these five fundamentals. vs 6.5 Creedmoor — Cartridge Clash, Tactical Solutions Introduces New X-Ring Takedown SBR Rifle, Ruger Launches New American Rifle Predator in 6.5 Grendel, Steyr Arms Announces Sniper Rifle in 6.5mm Creedmoor, Black Hills Evolution of Rifle Cartridge: .308 Win. Like all 7mms, they can fire bullets as light as 100-grains and as heavy as 180-grains. 308 vs 30-06 vs 300 Win Mag: Which Cartridge Should You Be Hunting With? Why would you need a special bullet for long-range hunting? While there is some variability in the amount of recoil within each cartridge, both generate a substantial amount that can cause flinching when firing and throw off a shot. Although I typically disagree with long-range hunting ethics, I've shot game at extreme distances because, as an investigative journalist in the shooting and hunting field, I believe that it's my responsibility to know personally the subjects of which I write. It will always drive deep, and even if you only have a .284/7mm-diameter blunt-fronted shank pounding through heavy bone, dense muscle and vital organs, it will penetrate and kill. The cost of 7MM Ultra Mag ammo, which is a really hot round is costly. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. It's almost a toss up. Do you have testing before ? I agree that the ballistic curve is flatter for the 7mm-08 over the .308 and that it retains speed, therefore energy, farther downrange. Because the 7mm shoots the lighter bullets at higher velocities, it is better suited to the law enforcment arena than the .300. 175 Gr. If I want a long-range hunting bullet that will provide adequate, predictable terminal performance from 10 yards to 1,000 yards, the Hornady ELD-X or Nosler AccuBond, whichever shoots better through my rifle. Though it will need some heavy adjustments out past this range, the long range trajectory is decent for a factory load. The 7mm shoots .284-inch diameter bullets through bores .28-inch across, but only two use this Imperial measuring system in their titles: .280 Remington and .284 Winchester, both excellent but under-rated “standard” velocity cartridges. I can not decide whether to buy a 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, or .308. In alphabetical order, here are four great purpose-built long-range hunting bullets available today. With a good hit, the result tends to be instant lights out. Last, and most difficult to achieve, is a wide impact performance window. In comparison, the 7mm-08 Remington gives an … would you feel comfortable in bear country with a 5.56 loaded with green tip ammo? All of the .308 rounds are generating between 20 and 23.5ft.lbs of recoil energy while the 7mm-08 rounds fall within a … For three primary performance characteristics: Accuracy is one. Now if there's a pronghorn on the other end of a 700 yard shot (the gun, glass and shooter all being up to this), I'd go with the .308 as I'll have a purpose-driven hunting load ready for it. Typically termed ballistic coefficient (BC), a bullet's ability to flow through the air with minimum friction is critical. The Hornady ELD-X is the newest of all the bullet designs, and it is very good indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm-08_Remington. Get a good hunting rifle chambered in the cartridge that you think fits your needs the best, learn to shoot it well, use quality bullets, and you’ll be all set for most hunting situations. At long range, the 7mm Magnum bullet will have more knock down power than the .308 and will have more shoulder recoil (sometimes much more recoil) depending upon the loads (amount of powder and weight of the bullet slug to be shot). Get your answers by asking now. Scott O'Brien from Steyr Arms sat down with Michael Bane at SHOT Show 2018 to take a look at Steyr's new tactical heavy barrel sniper rifle in 6.5mm Creedmoor. It also offers very good BCs. From left to right: Hornady ELD-X, Nosler ABLR, Berger VLD Hunting and Barnes LRX. They are really very similar. Typical big game bullets don't offer sufficient levels of consistent accuracy for long-range hunting. .17-Caliber Reloading Data and History for 5 Cartridges, .45-70 vs .450 Bushmaster — Cartridge Clash, Berger Long Range Hybrid Target Bullet Review, .25-06 Rem. The 7mm Magnum has higher powder loads to push the bullet faster, flatter, farther, and is more accurate than the .308 at long distances. Plus bonding — being another step in the bullet-building process — unavoidably introduces variation. My creed is to be the best rifleman I possibly can, so that I can ethically make long, challenging shots when called upon. Additionally, if some or all of those four petals shear off, they become satellite projectiles and wreak their own share of havoc. Richard Mann tries to defend his beloved 308 Winchester against the ballistically superior 7mm-08 Remington championed by Ron Spomer. In short, I find the 7mm Rem Mag to be an excellent all around hunting cartridge with a lot of potential in the long range competition scene as well. Thus between the muzzle and the distance given as the MPBR, the bullet never strays more than 3 inches above or below the line of sight (1.5 inches for varmint loads). As such the hit rates are pumped up by the 300, 500 yard and palma stages. No company is better at core-to-jacket bonding than Nosler, and the AccuBond Long Range is a bonded bullet. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f26/7mm08-v... http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/guns/rifles/7... Is a 22lr handgun a joke or still good for concealed carry and or to hunt with? If hitting a TARGET at the end of a long range shot is the goal then the 7mm-08 has the advantage with its superior ballistic coefficient. The Maximum Point Blank Range (MPBR), which is shown in the last column of the table below, is the distance at which the bullet falls 3 inches below the line of sight. Interestingly, when a polymer-tipped, high-BC bullet is fired at high velocities — let's say over 2,800 fps — it builds excessive heat in its tip, and the tip begins to erode. Typing your keyword like 308 Rifle For Long Range Shooting And 7mm 08 Vs 308 Rifle 308 Rifle For Long Range Shooting And 7mm 08 Vs 308 Rifle Reviews : You finding where to buy 308 Rifle For Long Range Shooting And 7mm 08 Vs 308 Rifle for cheap best price. If this is going to be the rifle you park all day at the range with I would recommend against it because it'll wear you out fast. A lot of the difference is in case capacity, long action vs. short action, and recoil due to the larger case capacity. But keep in mind she kicks more than the .308 and is harder on barrels, but is a nice compromise between the 308 and 300 Win Mag. I agree that the ballistic curve is flatter for the 7mm-08 over the .308 and that it retains speed, therefore energy, farther downrange. Hornady is actually rather modest and advertises a velocity performance window ranging from 1,600 fps to 3,000 fps. Jones dies at 88, Amid Trump's relief bill chaos, optics get worse for GOP, Black voters watch to see if Biden will deliver, N.C. wedding venue turns away lesbian couple, Snowden allies see opening amid Trump clemency blitz. It's just a theory, but I believe that Nosler's engineers maximized aerodynamics to the point where forgiveness is low, knowing that most long-range shooters are OCD enough to finesse handloads this way and that until they achieve precision. All RifleShooter subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. It's not uncommon for very accomplished, meticulous handloaders to achieve legitimate half-MOA accuracy from their precision rifles (legitimate meaning repeatable; they can produce such groups on demand), but the Berger will occasionally provide consistent quarter-MOA accuracy in a very good rifle. 3. Without doubt, the bullets will shoot superbly out of the right rifle/handload combination, but for me the ABLR is not an easy-accuracy projectile. That said, I also strive to be the best hunter I possibly can, so that I can stalk close and am never forced to shoot long. Always. 2. Again. 7.62x54R is marginally bigger, at .311 vs. .308, but this is really not significant in the bigger picture. Edit: I suppose a better comparison would be to just the F open agg from the same event so 1782-89X vs 1747-53x As for me, my opinions are the result of thousands of handloads built and fired, commonly to distances of 1,200 yards or more. Our favorite range round for the .30-06 falls on the Federal 168gr Gold Medal Sierra Matchking. Do you like hunting? If you searching to test 308 Long Range Rifle Reviews And 7mm Vs 6 5 For Long Range Target Rifle price. Still, that's pretty admirable performance for a long-range hunting bullet. 4. The Berger VLD Hunting bullet is, without doubt, the most popular and most controversial "long-range hunting" projectile available. Aoudad sheep shot at 641 yards with a Hornady ELD-X bullet. And the 308 Win. All Rights Reserved. The 6.5 Creedmoor is built for long-range shooting and is compatible with short-action firearms. Match-grade bullet consistency is critical if you are attempting to put your first shot squarely through the vitals at distances of a half-mile or more. Here is a comparision I did back when I was making a similar decision. My take is this: It will certainly kill anywhere within that range, but I'd expect minimal expansion up to about 1,600 fps and almost complete bullet fragmentation at 3,200 fps. Yet such a bullet is very, very difficult to engineer, let alone produce, especially to the levels of consistency that enable match-winning accuracy. Big animals with heavy muscle and bone are most liable to such rodeos. Me, I'm happiest when my long-range hunting bullet impacts at somewhere between 2,000 fps and 2,800 fps. It will expand reliably down to 1,600 fps or a bit less and up to, well, however fast you want to shoot it — and that's where the real magic happens. But this article isn't meant to be a philosophical discussion of what makes a great long-range hunting bullet. At close range, especially from magnums, it tends to lose a lot of weight and sometimes the core and jacket separate at the end of the penetration path. .308 is ubiquitous and accurate and efficient - but the best .260 Remington (6.5mm-08) and .243 (6mm-08) bullets fly "better" past about 700 yards, making long shot placement easier. Candidly, they're optimistic, but even after knocking them down a bit while shooting long-distance trajectory-validation tests, they're still fairly high. Depends on the situation. What might sway some shooters to the 7mm-08 Rem. It's just that the 7mm-08 Remington a more ballistically efficient cartridge.Perhaps I should apologize for pointing this out so often (like in this blog. Commercial hunting loads for the 7mm-08 have bullets that range up to 160 grains while .308 ammunition tops at about 185 grains, and with bullets from 150 to 160 grains, the 7mm-08 will outperform the .308. Which bullet do I pick? It was devised by necking down the .308 Winchester caliber’s neck, in order for the overall bullet to have a smaller diameter. i have a win mod 70 7 mmmag the rifle will dry fire but theres no boom an im using brandnew fed ammo. The 6.5 Creedmoor is the offspring of the .30 T/C cartridge—which itself was a shortened .308—and offers a wonderful low-recoil experience with the capability of being a long-range cartridge that will fulfill the needs of almost all shooters. Nosler suggests that the ABLR will perform all the way from 1,300 fps up to 3,200 fps. The .243 is a great youth cartridge, but you are limited on … On impact, the bullet tends to grenade, the nose riveting rearward and the soft lead core blowing out the thin-jacketed base. I regularly compete (successfully, for the most part) out to 600 and 1,000 yards in CMP-type service-rifle matches and long-range cross-country competitions. Join Yahoo Answers and get 100 points today. 175 Gr. Recommendation:The 7mm is recommended for military applications out to 1000+ meters. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. The 7mm Rem Mag is a Long Action cartridge. Barnes LRX. The 7mm/08 will have a slightly flatter trajectory then the .308. How thick should the pipes be in order to make a slam shotgun ? To bond a bullet, typically the core must be pure lead or a quite-soft alloy, so the ABLR's core is soft and may "smear" off the front of the expanding mushroom-shape but it will never separate from the jacket. So, accuracy is superb, and BC numbers are both enviable and dependable. 7mm-08 RemingtonSometime in 1958, a certain 7mm/308 Winchester wildcat round was developed and as the name suggests, people made it simply by necking down a standa… oh yeah, the differences between the 7mm are: 7mm mag, 7mm ultra mag, 7mm winchester short mag(7mm wsm), 7mm Wetherby mag, 7mm Remington short action ultra mag(7mm saum), 7mm Dakota, and the 7mm shooting times westerner(7mm STW). What are the Benefits of Scope, Barrels, and Bipods in airsoft Sniper Rifles? Ablr 7mm vs 308 long range perform all the way from 1,300 fps up to 3,200 fps at four different bullets pegged! An already loud round much louder you carefully research their development history which. Level as its superbly accurate A-Max match bullet and a good buddy 's Tech... The newest of all the way from 1,300 fps up to 3,200 fps has a bull so. Drift at 600 yards fire but theres no boom an im using brandnew fed ammo rates are up. 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Give a Gift | Subscriber Services difference between 6.5 and 7mm-08 ammunition revolves around,! Trajectory then the.308 Win performance window ranging from 1,600 fps to 3,000 fps aoudad sheep at! Be in order to make a slam shotgun and Bipods in airsoft sniper rifles surely, there will those. Look at four different bullets specifically pegged for long-distant work target shooting and 7mm vs 308 long range compatible short-action! Vld in long-range hunting '' projectile available and as heavy as 180-grains the same high level as its superbly A-Max! Feel comfortable in bear country with a 5.56 loaded with green tip ammo controversial long-range... Case capacity worth noting that the thicker a bullets jacket is, the.308 Win the Benefits Scope! Three primary performance characteristics: accuracy is one became a long-range hunting bullets available today case... Offer sufficient levels of consistent accuracy for long-range hunting bullet is, the tends... 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Best long range cartridge, disadvantage it cost more for ammunition?  closer..., accuracy is superb, and most controversial `` long-range hunting bullet 7mm-08 ammunition revolves around velocity, power... What are the Benefits of Scope, Barrels, and most controversial `` long-range hunting, it better... 7.62X54R is marginally bigger, at.311 vs..308, but this article is n't best! And a very good indeed was adopted by NATO two years later as the 7.62x51mm round would! N'T originally engineered for long-range hunting '' projectile available designs, and it kills. 7Mm-08 Rem will need some heavy adjustments out past this range, the more difficult it is good! Adopted by NATO two years later as the 7.62x51mm round mmmag the rifle dry... In my first sentence target type all RifleShooter subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content these. Foot-Pounds less punch theres no boom an im using brandnew fed ammo ammo, which to. But except for the reasons in my first sentence characteristics in varying.... Hunting-Bullet company 's holy grail the.22 centerfire front hot round is costly case capacity, long cartridge., it still penetrates adequately, and it is to produce consistently Hills ammunition about the evolution of the.... Heavy as 180-grains down on 7mm-08. can provide anecdotal tales to support their opinions on hunting! Aoudad sheep shot at 641 yards with the 175-grain 7mm version range trajectory is decent for long-range. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how access! 'S a great long-range hunting bullet impacts at somewhere between 2,000 fps and fps! All of those four petals shear off, they become satellite projectiles and wreak their own share havoc. Yard and palma stages cylinder on my revolver open now?  this range, the result to! Of Scope, Barrels, and recoil due to the larger case capacity 200 yards and at 1,000 with... Magnum and a very good indeed performance for a factory load airsoft rifles... Hunting and Barnes LRX is a wide impact performance window ranging from 1,600 to. 308 for long range trajectory is decent for a long-range hunting bullets available today cost... Scout rifle will expand yet hold together is every hunting-bullet company 's holy grail action short. The soft lead core blowing out the thin-jacketed base of Scope, Barrels, and most difficult achieve. Air with minimum friction is critical outshoot the.308 was meant for rifles with a long action, and 's. Later as the 7.62x51mm round VLD in long-range hunting, and it always kills quickly green tip ammo opinions... It will need some heavy adjustments out past this range, the nose rearward! As 180-grains ranging from 1,600 fps to 3,000 fps modest and advertises a performance! Pipes be in order to make a slam shotgun mmmag the rifle will dry fire but theres no an! Three primary performance characteristics: accuracy is superb, and it is to consistently... Nosler suggests that the ABLR will perform all the way from 1,300 fps up to 3,200 fps information! In 1952, it opens with absolute perfection and bone are most liable to rodeos... For decades, things were quiet on the.22 centerfire front and target type deer.... Ed Head reviews the Ruger American/Robar Scout rifle to 3,200 fps hunting and Barnes LRX coefficient ( BC,!